ID Felosas

Reboleira, março de 2017 a fevereiro de 2019.

Sem quaisquer compromissos e entre “Phylloscopus collybita collybita”, Phylloscopus collybita abietinus”, “Phylloscopus collybita tristis” e “Phylloscopus collybita fulvescens”, quem arrisca uma ID?

Ave 1:



Ave 2:



Ave 3:



Ave 4:

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Ave 5:



Ave 6:



Ave 7:



Ave 8:

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Ave 9:



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Ave 13:



Ave 14:



Ave 15:



Ave 16:

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Ave 17:



Ave 18:

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Ave 19:



Ave 20:



Ave 21:

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Ave 22:

nearest bp gas

Um pormenor: cerca de 2/3 destas aves foram registadas neste mês de fevereiro de 2019.

Obrigado.

Gilberto o que significam as legendas com link à direita de algumas fotos?

Não sei, Gonçalo. Presumo que tem a ver onde faço a hospedagem das fotos.

Já estive a ver, são links publicitários, deves estar a copiar código a mais quando copias as fotos para aqui.

Por favor procura não copiar esses links publicitários.

Sim, vou estar atento, Gonçalo. Obrigado.

Aposto que não temos uma só collybita collybita... deve ser tudo abietinus, tristis e fulvencens!!!
... estou certíssimo????

Hoje, ainda observei estas três:

Hoje, no jardim, observei e registei novamente estas duas pequenas belezas:





Porventura, alguém me sabe dizer se a “Stabvida” é o sitio indicado para pedirmos um teste de “ADN”?

https://www.stabvida.com/pt/identificacao-genomica-de-microorganismos-ou-especies-animais

Já trabalhei com o stabvida, mas para sexar aves... e na altura funcionavam bem.

E achas que ainda funcionam bem?

Obrigado.

A stabvida funcionava bem, mas para estas situações não sei se tem O que é necessário. É melhor falares com eles para ver se podem fazê-lo.

Enviado pelo Topic'it

Eu além de collybitas vejo um pisco.

Sim, irei falar com eles, Pedro.
Obrigado.

Afinal, parece que não são todas “Phylloscopus collybita collybita”. E, finalmente, já tenho um guia de aves (Assírio & Alvim)…

Ave 21:





“…The tan-brown and buff hues indicate a ‘Siberian Chiffchaff (P. c. tristis) type but image_9103 shows yellow in the fore-supercilium and on parts of the underparts. These are ‘fulvescens’ traits and the misplaced yellow on such individuals is generally taken to arise from introgression with abietinus in the Urals region.  This has support from genetic studies e.g. Shipilina et al. (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ece3.2782)...”

Ave…:





“…These images too appear to lack olive and yellow entirely (i.e. showing a tristis trait) but they look overall rather dark brown and suspiciously uniform i.e. not even a trace of olive in the fringes of the flight feathers. I suspect that they may not be 100% color accurate. This happens all too easily and is no reflection on the photographer. I have taken many such images myself, where I can see that the result is not well balanced color-wise and does not capture what I carefully assessed in the field! It is a function of light and camera white-balance. As color, nuances are critical when attempting to assign Chiffchaffs to subspecies I would be wary in assigning this bird to subspecies, as the images seem to lack color nuances and are a little less sharp than one would require when making subtle judgements. Thus, this might be tristis too but I have reservations about how much trust can be placed in the color reproduction. I have found that, quite often, different photos of a single bird look quite different in terms of color! To be confident, a long series of photos all conveying the same appearance is needed…”

“…I still have some reservations about lack of detail and resolution in the photos. For example, images 9239 and 9240 suggest yellow on the under tail coverts / ventral area. This could be an artefact or ‘reflection’ from surrounding vegetation but it is difficult to be sure and to know how good is the color fidelity overall. With Chiffchaff subspecies, it is necessary to have images of the very highest quality, as misleading color impressions otherwise all too easily arise! This is a case where call can be invaluable as; for example, tristis has a straight, mournful ‘eeep’ call quite unlike the brighter, rising ‘huit’ of collybita and abietinus. On the basis of plumage alone, the photos convey and ‘impression’ which, at face value, does not accord with collybita or abietinus but it would be dangerous to assign a definite diagnosis when the color fidelity cannot be judged with full confidence…”

Ave 1:



“…P. lorenzii is primarily an altitudinal migrant and is unknown in Western Europe (though quite remarkably there is a report of sindianus from Gibraltar). Lorenzii is rather like tristis in appearance but is a little darker brown and has a rather white supercilium, which often bridges the forehead (an area that cannot be examined in your photo as the feathering is discolored / wet). I do not think your photo is lorenzii but any claim would need the greatest of detail of both appearance and call. In its (apparent) lack of olive and yellow it again looks closest to tristis…”

Ave 5:



“…Photo 2.jpg looks clearer and sharper than others and, given color fidelity, then it shows: no olive in crown or mantle; no visible yellow; tan-brown upperparts; rich buff wash on underparts and on supercilium; two-tone eye ring - buff upper eye ring but whiter lower eye ring. Thus, it exhibits the traits of tristis. I am still a little worried that some earlier images appeared to show comparable ‘brown and buff’ hues but also yellow streaking below but they were less well focused than 2.jpg and, if that photo gives a reliable portrayal, then it does indicate tristis…”

Sempre a aprender… continuação de boas observações para todos!

With Chiffchaff subspecies, it is necessary to have images of the very highest quality, as misleading color impressions otherwise all too easily arise! This is a case where call can be invaluable as; for example, tristis has a straight, mournful ‘eeep’ call quite unlike the brighter, rising ‘huit’ of collybita and abietinus. On the basis of plumage alone, the photos convey and ‘impression’ which, at face value, does not accord with collybita or abietinus but it would be dangerous to assign a definite diagnosis when the color fidelity cannot be judged with full confidence…”

Muito verdade. Quem disse estas palavras?

Diga-se que essa pessoa é santa.

Parabéns Gilberto!!!

[quote="PNicolau"]

With Chiffchaff subspecies, it is necessary to have images of the very highest quality, as misleading color impressions otherwise all too easily arise! This is a case where call can be invaluable as; for example, tristis has a straight, mournful ‘eeep’ call quite unlike the brighter, rising ‘huit’ of collybita and abietinus. On the basis of plumage alone, the photos convey and ‘impression’ which, at face value, does not accord with collybita or abietinus but it would be dangerous to assign a definite diagnosis when the color fidelity cannot be judged with full confidence…”

De facto, já agora, Phylloscopus collybita abietinus é uma invernante comum na Europa e em Portugal provavelmente também, mas não sei se já alguém estudou a questão, e Phylloscopus collybita tristis não é considerada uma raridade na maioria dos países europeus, mas curiosamente em Portugal não conheço nenhuma gravação de uma tristis a fazer o chamamento ou a cantar, alguém sabe de uma?

Há uma serie de registos de tristis submetidas ao CPR mas nenhuma vocalizou.

Mais estas:

Ave :



Série E1 a E4:









Ave 9786/87 e 9796/99:









Ave 9476:







Ave 2.jpg:



“…Generally speaking, the new images (appear) to show little or no olive in the upperparts, no genuine yellow away from bend of wing (but see below), a buff supercilium and a buff upper eye ring contrasting with a while lower eye ring. As noted earlier, these are tristis features. However, I must reiterate that I have concerns about color-fidelity. Images 9786 and 9796, for example, show a very rich suffusion to the breast, almost a peachy or reddish-yellow tinge and this must indicate a color problem. It may be, for example, that the camera is ‘reacting’ to the red color of the bowl. This kind of thing happens easily with digital cameras (for instance, underparts as portrayed in a photo often take on an artificial yellowish or greenish tinge, imparted by ‘reflection’ from leaves / lichens close to these feather tracts).
Image 9082 shows the same discoloration around the base of the bill (forehead and chin feathering) as series E1 to E4. It may be that different birds are getting the same discoloring from ‘wetness’ by drinking from the same water bowl (?) but I wonder whether there is some duplication of a single individual among the images. Image 9476 suggest a hint of yellow in the fore-supercilium, a ‘fulvescens’ trait but also perhaps suggesting that there may be photographically ‘suppressed’ yellow elsewhere. Thus, it is very hard to proffer a confident diagnosis; though there are suggestions of tristis traits, can we be sure enough from these images? As noted earlier, I have learned from experience to be very cautious indeed, of images, which are not thoroughly clear – and to be somewhat cautious even then! The clearest image by far to my eye is 2.jpg and I would have more confidence here that this image involves tristis…”

E, assim, vamos aprendendo.

Quando pensava que as felosas já tinham abandonado o jardim, eis que aparece esta maravilha:

Gilberto , agora que tens o Collins versão portuguesa (Guia de Aves ) podes verificar a nota que informa que para a identificação ser segura a verificação do chamamento é fundamental.
Situação muito semelhante com a ibericus , muito fácil de identificar pelo chamamento ou canto e nalgumas situações pelo jizz.
Penso que somente pelas analise das fotos será muito difícil dar uma opinião segura .

Sim, Rogério, eu tenho a noção da dificuldade e dos requisitos necessários para chegarmos a uma ID segura, sobretudo, se quisessemos homologar a ave, mas não é o caso. Fico mt contente e apenas por ter observado e conseguido este registo.

Obrigado pela tua atenção.

Gilberto Pinelas escreveu:Quando pensava que as felosas já tinham abandonado o jardim, eis que aparece esta maravilha:

Espero que tenha noção que as patas não são da mesma cor...

Sim, é possível que não sejam...